From clemc at ccc.com Mon Jul 1 23:49:42 2019 From: clemc at ccc.com (Clem Cole) Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2019 09:49:42 -0400 Subject: [COFF] Disk Technology was [Simh] Which PDP-11 to choose In-Reply-To: <005401d5300f$74588a60$5d099f20$@twsoft.co.uk> References: <6e8cdcbf-7183-1082-0437-403a6f3b2994@gmail.com> <25855953-9505-481C-A0E2-1AAD53B7BEC5@ccc.com> <28FA3347-B880-400A-B606-1240C83FA867@ccc.com> <005401d5300f$74588a60$5d099f20$@twsoft.co.uk> Message-ID: We really should take this off-list if you want to continue the discussion as it has little to do with simh and more history (so I'm CCing the TUHS COFF list. I'll include simh for now, but if you reply please kill the simh part). An Eagle or Eagle-II was a whole lot lighter (and physically smaller) than an RP06 or RP07 (or an RM series drive for that matter). It is interesting to hear you had problems with the Eagles. They were generally considered the best/most reliable of the day. The SI controller on the Vax was less so, although many of us in the UNIX community used them. FWIW: I was accused of jinxing the 19" SMD Ampex drive by Masscomp's field service team. The story is we could never make the Ampex drives work reliably at UCB (they were cheaper in bytes/$ than the Eagles at the time). When I was being recruited to Masscomp as I was leaving UCB, they were trying to use Ampex as their high-end SMD drive with the Xylogic 440 controller, but had not (yet) had a failure. [Xylogic, like Masscomp, was ex-DEC folks]. Anyway, I had mentioned @ UCB we had given up on the Ampex drive on our Vaxen, and within 2 weeks of my starting to work darned near all of them that Masscomp owned had failed. PC (Paul Cantrell), tjt and I did eventually make them work but only after we got Xylogic to redesign the 440 to be the 450 controllers and PC spend hours with the microcode team on the error recovery logic. Funny, the 450/Eagle combination (and later Xylogic 472 tape) became the de rigor in the UNIX community. BTW: if Mark and the simh team is to ever to create a solid Sun/Masscomp/Apollo simulator, they will need to emulate the Xylogic controller family. One more thing for the forever growing list of things I'd like to do when I retire, but I think I still have the engineering specs for them and PC and tjt are still to be found ;-) On Mon, Jul 1, 2019 at 9:19 AM Tim Wilkinson wrote: > Back in 85 have had applications to purchase a 785 – 780-750-730 then 725 > rejected, we were fortunately given a 750 by a sister company who were > upgrading to a 785, but they took their disks. So we had to buy for > ourselves. > > > > To keep the bean counter happy we went for a System Industries controller > and 4 super Eagles. > > > > But back then there was a problem with the eagles and all 4 had to be > swapped out 4 times. > > > > Carrying them up stairs to the computer room was not fun. The platter size > may have been reduced. But the weight!!! > > > > Tim > > *From:* Simh [mailto:simh-bounces at trailing-edge.com] *On Behalf Of *Clem > Cole > *Sent:* 01 July 2019 14:08 > *To:* Patrick Finnegan > *Cc:* SIMH > *Subject:* Re: [Simh] Which PDP-11 to choose > > > > I can not say why it followed that naming convention, but it did. The > drives of that day were referred to as 19" technology since that's how they > mounted. FWIW: Most manufacturers at the time used the same platter > size as the original IBM 1311 (which as you pointed out was 14"), but not > everyone, for instance, the Fujitsu Eagle used 10.5-inch platter. FWIW: > I answered a bunch of this in: > https://www.quora.com/How-do-hard-drives-get-smaller-and-smaller-in-size-bigger-and-bigger-in-capacity-every-year-when-the-fundamental-physical-processes-behind-them-do-not-change/answer/Clem-Cole > > > > > On Mon, Jul 1, 2019 at 8:52 AM Patrick Finnegan > wrote: > > > > > > On Mon, Jul 1, 2019 at 7:32 AM Clem cole wrote: > > 19” form factor for the disks drive fir the space in the 19” relay rack. > You’re right the platters themselves were smaller. The disks were referred > too by the mechanical FF. 19, 8, 5.25 etc. > > > > But, 8" hard drives have 8" platters, and 5.25" hard drives have 5.25" > platters. The casing on a the 5.25" drive in front of me is almost 6" wide. > > > > Pat > > > > Virus-free. > www.avast.com > > <#m_1729574511750107707_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lm at mcvoy.com Tue Jul 2 00:11:24 2019 From: lm at mcvoy.com (Larry McVoy) Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2019 07:11:24 -0700 Subject: [COFF] Disk Technology was [Simh] Which PDP-11 to choose In-Reply-To: References: <6e8cdcbf-7183-1082-0437-403a6f3b2994@gmail.com> <25855953-9505-481C-A0E2-1AAD53B7BEC5@ccc.com> <28FA3347-B880-400A-B606-1240C83FA867@ccc.com> <005401d5300f$74588a60$5d099f20$@twsoft.co.uk> Message-ID: <20190701141124.GP1912@mcvoy.com> On Mon, Jul 01, 2019 at 09:49:42AM -0400, Clem Cole wrote: > An Eagle or Eagle-II was a whole lot lighter (and physically smaller) than > an RP06 or RP07 (or an RM series drive for that matter). It is interesting > to hear you had problems with the Eagles. They were generally considered > the best/most reliable of the day. The SI controller on the Vax was less > so, although many of us in the UNIX community used them. We ran Eagles on the Masscomps we had at Geophysics. Nothing but good things to say about those drives. From jpl.jpl at gmail.com Tue Jul 2 21:47:17 2019 From: jpl.jpl at gmail.com (John P. Linderman) Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2019 07:47:17 -0400 Subject: [COFF] Disk Technology was [Simh] Which PDP-11 to choose In-Reply-To: <20190701141124.GP1912@mcvoy.com> References: <6e8cdcbf-7183-1082-0437-403a6f3b2994@gmail.com> <25855953-9505-481C-A0E2-1AAD53B7BEC5@ccc.com> <28FA3347-B880-400A-B606-1240C83FA867@ccc.com> <005401d5300f$74588a60$5d099f20$@twsoft.co.uk> <20190701141124.GP1912@mcvoy.com> Message-ID: There were eagles, and then there were super-eagles. Our experience with eagles was great, and we were eager to try the (larger) super-eagles. We soaked them for a month or so, then put them into production use. Whereupon, they started dropping like flies. It turns out the glue they used to attach the platters to the spindle slowly crept out over time, eventually coming to grief with a read/write head. This experience was wide-spread, and seriously damaged Fujitsu's reputation. On Mon, Jul 1, 2019 at 10:11 AM Larry McVoy wrote: > On Mon, Jul 01, 2019 at 09:49:42AM -0400, Clem Cole wrote: > > An Eagle or Eagle-II was a whole lot lighter (and physically smaller) > than > > an RP06 or RP07 (or an RM series drive for that matter). It is > interesting > > to hear you had problems with the Eagles. They were generally > considered > > the best/most reliable of the day. The SI controller on the Vax was > less > > so, although many of us in the UNIX community used them. > > We ran Eagles on the Masscomps we had at Geophysics. Nothing but good > things to say about those drives. > _______________________________________________ > COFF mailing list > COFF at minnie.tuhs.org > https://minnie.tuhs.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/coff > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From clemc at ccc.com Tue Jul 2 23:13:22 2019 From: clemc at ccc.com (Clem Cole) Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2019 09:13:22 -0400 Subject: [COFF] Disk Technology was [Simh] Which PDP-11 to choose In-Reply-To: References: <6e8cdcbf-7183-1082-0437-403a6f3b2994@gmail.com> <25855953-9505-481C-A0E2-1AAD53B7BEC5@ccc.com> <28FA3347-B880-400A-B606-1240C83FA867@ccc.com> <005401d5300f$74588a60$5d099f20$@twsoft.co.uk> <20190701141124.GP1912@mcvoy.com> Message-ID: Yeah - although we discovered that the better the controller microcode was at handling errors, the better life was for the user, disk vendor, and system manufacturer. On the VAX, the SI controller was not extremely forgiving and I had left that world. I wonder if some of the super eagle's issues were that the controller did not gracefully handle drive errors. IIRC Emulex's SMI and Unibus controllers tended to be smarter than SI's. FWIW: Once Xylogic did the 45x series for the Multibus/later VME with *the microcode solid* and Unix drivers got written to handle the errors returned, my experiences were ( as Larry said ) we had few problems with any of the SMD disks, even the Ampex, at either Masscomp or Stellar. Truth is by then we had started to concentrate on ESDI 5.25" FF disks from the 19" and 8" SMD technologies (using a cheap SCSI to ESDI controller). But it was a little of "you get what you pay for" problem. The new controllers for the smaller disks cost a lot less (Xylogic VME/Multibus *vs.* SMS SCSI); so we were starting over with the SMS folks to educate them. Apollo had been SMS's primary partner (did you ever wonder why they supported at 1056 byte block as one of their native block sizes), but to the SMS's folks credit they picked up the ideas of good error recovery reasonable fast. Clem PS The thing I fear lost to history was PC's code for the Masscomp formatter/tester/exerciser for the 45x Series. It was an amazing piece of work. I think we still have the OS sources kicking around, but the diagnostic system was of less interest I fear. On Tue, Jul 2, 2019 at 7:47 AM John P. Linderman wrote: > There were eagles, and then there were super-eagles. Our experience with > eagles was great, and we were eager to try the (larger) super-eagles. We > soaked them for a month or so, then put them into production use. > Whereupon, they started dropping like flies. It turns out the glue they > used to attach the platters to the spindle slowly crept out over time, > eventually coming to grief with a read/write head. This experience was > wide-spread, and seriously damaged Fujitsu's reputation. > > On Mon, Jul 1, 2019 at 10:11 AM Larry McVoy wrote: > >> On Mon, Jul 01, 2019 at 09:49:42AM -0400, Clem Cole wrote: >> > An Eagle or Eagle-II was a whole lot lighter (and physically smaller) >> than >> > an RP06 or RP07 (or an RM series drive for that matter). It is >> interesting >> > to hear you had problems with the Eagles. They were generally >> considered >> > the best/most reliable of the day. The SI controller on the Vax was >> less >> > so, although many of us in the UNIX community used them. >> >> We ran Eagles on the Masscomps we had at Geophysics. Nothing but good >> things to say about those drives. >> _______________________________________________ >> COFF mailing list >> COFF at minnie.tuhs.org >> https://minnie.tuhs.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/coff >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jpl.jpl at gmail.com Wed Jul 3 05:58:45 2019 From: jpl.jpl at gmail.com (John P. Linderman) Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2019 15:58:45 -0400 Subject: [COFF] Disk Technology was [Simh] Which PDP-11 to choose In-Reply-To: <00c901d530db$cf7b40f0$6e71c2d0$@twsoft.co.uk> References: <6e8cdcbf-7183-1082-0437-403a6f3b2994@gmail.com> <25855953-9505-481C-A0E2-1AAD53B7BEC5@ccc.com> <28FA3347-B880-400A-B606-1240C83FA867@ccc.com> <005401d5300f$74588a60$5d099f20$@twsoft.co.uk> <20190701141124.GP1912@mcvoy.com> <00c901d530db$cf7b40f0$6e71c2d0$@twsoft.co.uk> Message-ID: I don't have authoritative info on the cause, I'm just repeating what I heard. A highly viscous substance like glue would explain why it took so long to fail. In any event, it was nasty. Worked perfectly long enough to build confidence, then failed spectacularly. It was widespread. I entered a "Sysadmin Horror Story" contest at a USENIX (San Diego?), and won with a "short story" entry: *Supereagles*. I still have the shark's tooth trophy. On Tue, Jul 2, 2019 at 9:41 AM Tim Wilkinson wrote: > > > Interesting that it was the platter bonding. The explanation SI gave us > (They sold us the super Eagles along with their controller) was that it was > a lubricant. So I had assumed a bearing seal fail. > > > > Anyway after about 4 swap outs and a lot of lifting they lasted a further > 15 years until we knocked down the office with the original 750 and its big > brother an 8810 still in the computer room as all the resellers wanted > certificates of continuing maintenance that would have cost more than they > were willing to pay for those vaxs. > > > > *From:* John P. Linderman [mailto:jpl.jpl at gmail.com] > *Sent:* 02 July 2019 12:47 > *To:* Larry McVoy > *Cc:* Clem Cole ; Patrick Finnegan ; > COFF ; Tim Wilkinson > *Subject:* Re: [COFF] Disk Technology was [Simh] Which PDP-11 to choose > > > > There were eagles, and then there were super-eagles. Our experience with > eagles was great, and we were eager to try the (larger) super-eagles. We > soaked them for a month or so, then put them into production use. > Whereupon, they started dropping like flies. It turns out the glue they > used to attach the platters to the spindle slowly crept out over time, > eventually coming to grief with a read/write head. This experience was > wide-spread, and seriously damaged Fujitsu's reputation. > > > > On Mon, Jul 1, 2019 at 10:11 AM Larry McVoy wrote: > > On Mon, Jul 01, 2019 at 09:49:42AM -0400, Clem Cole wrote: > > An Eagle or Eagle-II was a whole lot lighter (and physically smaller) > than > > an RP06 or RP07 (or an RM series drive for that matter). It is > interesting > > to hear you had problems with the Eagles. They were generally > considered > > the best/most reliable of the day. The SI controller on the Vax was > less > > so, although many of us in the UNIX community used them. > > We ran Eagles on the Masscomps we had at Geophysics. Nothing but good > things to say about those drives. > _______________________________________________ > COFF mailing list > COFF at minnie.tuhs.org > https://minnie.tuhs.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/coff > > > > Virus-free. > www.avast.com > > <#m_-7814325232288781299_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rp at servium.ch Wed Jul 3 07:34:21 2019 From: rp at servium.ch (Rico Pajarola) Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2019 14:34:21 -0700 Subject: [COFF] Disk Technology was [Simh] Which PDP-11 to choose In-Reply-To: References: <6e8cdcbf-7183-1082-0437-403a6f3b2994@gmail.com> <25855953-9505-481C-A0E2-1AAD53B7BEC5@ccc.com> <28FA3347-B880-400A-B606-1240C83FA867@ccc.com> <005401d5300f$74588a60$5d099f20$@twsoft.co.uk> <20190701141124.GP1912@mcvoy.com> <00c901d530db$cf7b40f0$6e71c2d0$@twsoft.co.uk> Message-ID: if you still have that story, I'd love to hear it. A quick search didn't turn up anything except that Super Eagles is a Nigerian football team. On Tue, Jul 2, 2019 at 12:59 PM John P. Linderman wrote: > I don't have authoritative info on the cause, I'm just repeating what I > heard. A highly viscous substance like glue would explain why it took so > long to fail. In any event, it was nasty. Worked perfectly long enough to > build confidence, then failed spectacularly. It was widespread. I entered a > "Sysadmin Horror Story" contest at a USENIX (San Diego?), and won with a > "short story" entry: *Supereagles*. I still have the shark's tooth trophy. > > On Tue, Jul 2, 2019 at 9:41 AM Tim Wilkinson wrote: > >> >> >> Interesting that it was the platter bonding. The explanation SI gave us >> (They sold us the super Eagles along with their controller) was that it was >> a lubricant. So I had assumed a bearing seal fail. >> >> >> >> Anyway after about 4 swap outs and a lot of lifting they lasted a further >> 15 years until we knocked down the office with the original 750 and its big >> brother an 8810 still in the computer room as all the resellers wanted >> certificates of continuing maintenance that would have cost more than they >> were willing to pay for those vaxs. >> >> >> >> *From:* John P. Linderman [mailto:jpl.jpl at gmail.com] >> *Sent:* 02 July 2019 12:47 >> *To:* Larry McVoy >> *Cc:* Clem Cole ; Patrick Finnegan < >> pat at computer-refuge.org>; COFF ; Tim Wilkinson < >> tjw at twsoft.co.uk> >> *Subject:* Re: [COFF] Disk Technology was [Simh] Which PDP-11 to choose >> >> >> >> There were eagles, and then there were super-eagles. Our experience with >> eagles was great, and we were eager to try the (larger) super-eagles. We >> soaked them for a month or so, then put them into production use. >> Whereupon, they started dropping like flies. It turns out the glue they >> used to attach the platters to the spindle slowly crept out over time, >> eventually coming to grief with a read/write head. This experience was >> wide-spread, and seriously damaged Fujitsu's reputation. >> >> >> >> On Mon, Jul 1, 2019 at 10:11 AM Larry McVoy wrote: >> >> On Mon, Jul 01, 2019 at 09:49:42AM -0400, Clem Cole wrote: >> > An Eagle or Eagle-II was a whole lot lighter (and physically smaller) >> than >> > an RP06 or RP07 (or an RM series drive for that matter). It is >> interesting >> > to hear you had problems with the Eagles. They were generally >> considered >> > the best/most reliable of the day. The SI controller on the Vax was >> less >> > so, although many of us in the UNIX community used them. >> >> We ran Eagles on the Masscomps we had at Geophysics. Nothing but good >> things to say about those drives. >> _______________________________________________ >> COFF mailing list >> COFF at minnie.tuhs.org >> https://minnie.tuhs.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/coff >> >> >> >> Virus-free. >> www.avast.com >> >> <#m_-5102461650516400670_m_-7814325232288781299_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> >> > _______________________________________________ > COFF mailing list > COFF at minnie.tuhs.org > https://minnie.tuhs.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/coff > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tjw at twsoft.co.uk Tue Jul 2 23:41:10 2019 From: tjw at twsoft.co.uk (Tim Wilkinson) Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2019 14:41:10 +0100 Subject: [COFF] Disk Technology was [Simh] Which PDP-11 to choose In-Reply-To: References: <6e8cdcbf-7183-1082-0437-403a6f3b2994@gmail.com> <25855953-9505-481C-A0E2-1AAD53B7BEC5@ccc.com> <28FA3347-B880-400A-B606-1240C83FA867@ccc.com> <005401d5300f$74588a60$5d099f20$@twsoft.co.uk> <20190701141124.GP1912@mcvoy.com> Message-ID: <00c901d530db$cf7b40f0$6e71c2d0$@twsoft.co.uk> Interesting that it was the platter bonding. The explanation SI gave us (They sold us the super Eagles along with their controller) was that it was a lubricant. So I had assumed a bearing seal fail. Anyway after about 4 swap outs and a lot of lifting they lasted a further 15 years until we knocked down the office with the original 750 and its big brother an 8810 still in the computer room as all the resellers wanted certificates of continuing maintenance that would have cost more than they were willing to pay for those vaxs. From: John P. Linderman [mailto:jpl.jpl at gmail.com] Sent: 02 July 2019 12:47 To: Larry McVoy Cc: Clem Cole ; Patrick Finnegan ; COFF ; Tim Wilkinson Subject: Re: [COFF] Disk Technology was [Simh] Which PDP-11 to choose There were eagles, and then there were super-eagles. Our experience with eagles was great, and we were eager to try the (larger) super-eagles. We soaked them for a month or so, then put them into production use. Whereupon, they started dropping like flies. It turns out the glue they used to attach the platters to the spindle slowly crept out over time, eventually coming to grief with a read/write head. This experience was wide-spread, and seriously damaged Fujitsu's reputation. On Mon, Jul 1, 2019 at 10:11 AM Larry McVoy > wrote: On Mon, Jul 01, 2019 at 09:49:42AM -0400, Clem Cole wrote: > An Eagle or Eagle-II was a whole lot lighter (and physically smaller) than > an RP06 or RP07 (or an RM series drive for that matter). It is interesting > to hear you had problems with the Eagles. They were generally considered > the best/most reliable of the day. The SI controller on the Vax was less > so, although many of us in the UNIX community used them. We ran Eagles on the Masscomps we had at Geophysics. Nothing but good things to say about those drives. _______________________________________________ COFF mailing list COFF at minnie.tuhs.org https://minnie.tuhs.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/coff --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jpl.jpl at gmail.com Thu Jul 4 04:02:02 2019 From: jpl.jpl at gmail.com (John P. Linderman) Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2019 14:02:02 -0400 Subject: [COFF] Disk Technology was [Simh] Which PDP-11 to choose In-Reply-To: References: <6e8cdcbf-7183-1082-0437-403a6f3b2994@gmail.com> <25855953-9505-481C-A0E2-1AAD53B7BEC5@ccc.com> <28FA3347-B880-400A-B606-1240C83FA867@ccc.com> <005401d5300f$74588a60$5d099f20$@twsoft.co.uk> <20190701141124.GP1912@mcvoy.com> <00c901d530db$cf7b40f0$6e71c2d0$@twsoft.co.uk> Message-ID: The best I could find googling *fujitsu super eagle "glue"* was Introduction to redundant arrays of inexpensive disks ... - IEEE Xplore https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/iel2/231/7454/00301912.pdf by DA Patterson - ‎1989 - ‎Cited by 324 - ‎Related articles computers, the Fujitsu M2361A "Super Eagle" disk for minicomputers, ..... assembly, with this gluedissolving after the disks had been in the field for 18 months. Tantalizing, but I couldn't dig further, perhaps because I'm not a member of IEEE. On Tue, Jul 2, 2019 at 5:34 PM Rico Pajarola wrote: > if you still have that story, I'd love to hear it. A quick search didn't > turn up anything except that Super Eagles is a Nigerian football team. > > > On Tue, Jul 2, 2019 at 12:59 PM John P. Linderman > wrote: > >> I don't have authoritative info on the cause, I'm just repeating what I >> heard. A highly viscous substance like glue would explain why it took so >> long to fail. In any event, it was nasty. Worked perfectly long enough to >> build confidence, then failed spectacularly. It was widespread. I entered a >> "Sysadmin Horror Story" contest at a USENIX (San Diego?), and won with a >> "short story" entry: *Supereagles*. I still have the shark's tooth >> trophy. >> >> On Tue, Jul 2, 2019 at 9:41 AM Tim Wilkinson wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> Interesting that it was the platter bonding. The explanation SI gave us >>> (They sold us the super Eagles along with their controller) was that it was >>> a lubricant. So I had assumed a bearing seal fail. >>> >>> >>> >>> Anyway after about 4 swap outs and a lot of lifting they lasted a >>> further 15 years until we knocked down the office with the original 750 and >>> its big brother an 8810 still in the computer room as all the resellers >>> wanted certificates of continuing maintenance that would have cost more >>> than they were willing to pay for those vaxs. >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:* John P. Linderman [mailto:jpl.jpl at gmail.com] >>> *Sent:* 02 July 2019 12:47 >>> *To:* Larry McVoy >>> *Cc:* Clem Cole ; Patrick Finnegan < >>> pat at computer-refuge.org>; COFF ; Tim Wilkinson < >>> tjw at twsoft.co.uk> >>> *Subject:* Re: [COFF] Disk Technology was [Simh] Which PDP-11 to choose >>> >>> >>> >>> There were eagles, and then there were super-eagles. Our experience with >>> eagles was great, and we were eager to try the (larger) super-eagles. We >>> soaked them for a month or so, then put them into production use. >>> Whereupon, they started dropping like flies. It turns out the glue they >>> used to attach the platters to the spindle slowly crept out over time, >>> eventually coming to grief with a read/write head. This experience was >>> wide-spread, and seriously damaged Fujitsu's reputation. >>> >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Jul 1, 2019 at 10:11 AM Larry McVoy wrote: >>> >>> On Mon, Jul 01, 2019 at 09:49:42AM -0400, Clem Cole wrote: >>> > An Eagle or Eagle-II was a whole lot lighter (and physically smaller) >>> than >>> > an RP06 or RP07 (or an RM series drive for that matter). It is >>> interesting >>> > to hear you had problems with the Eagles. They were generally >>> considered >>> > the best/most reliable of the day. The SI controller on the Vax was >>> less >>> > so, although many of us in the UNIX community used them. >>> >>> We ran Eagles on the Masscomps we had at Geophysics. Nothing but good >>> things to say about those drives. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> COFF mailing list >>> COFF at minnie.tuhs.org >>> https://minnie.tuhs.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/coff >>> >>> >>> >>> Virus-free. >>> www.avast.com >>> >>> <#m_1751084755802734138_m_-5102461650516400670_m_-7814325232288781299_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> COFF mailing list >> COFF at minnie.tuhs.org >> https://minnie.tuhs.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/coff >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From clemc at ccc.com Thu Jul 4 04:38:44 2019 From: clemc at ccc.com (Clem Cole) Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2019 14:38:44 -0400 Subject: [COFF] Disk Technology was [Simh] Which PDP-11 to choose In-Reply-To: References: <6e8cdcbf-7183-1082-0437-403a6f3b2994@gmail.com> <25855953-9505-481C-A0E2-1AAD53B7BEC5@ccc.com> <28FA3347-B880-400A-B606-1240C83FA867@ccc.com> <005401d5300f$74588a60$5d099f20$@twsoft.co.uk> <20190701141124.GP1912@mcvoy.com> <00c901d530db$cf7b40f0$6e71c2d0$@twsoft.co.uk> Message-ID: John - not much there: Introduction to redundant arrays of inexpensive disks (RAID) >From Page 112, Bottom of 1st column continued to the top of second the text is: While the magnetic disk industry has made little progress in improving speed of disks, it has significantly reduced the size of disks. The personal computer industry has created a market for 5.25 and 3.5 inch drives, reducing the cost per disk system as well as the traditional lowering of cost per megabyte. Table I below compares the top-of-the-line IBM 3380 model AK4 mainframe disk, Fujitsu M2361A "Super Eagle" minicomputer disk, Impress/CDC Wren-IV workstation disk, and the Conner Peripherals CP 3100 personal computer disk. >From Page 116, Second column the text is; One problem that several magnetic disk manufacturers have mentioned is what we would call the "Pinto Effect;" a mistake is made in manufacturing process that is so disastrous that the disk manufacturer will recall all affected disks and replace them. The common theme is that the mistake is uncovered after the disks have been in the field for several months and the disks all fail within a short time of one another. One example was a manufacturer who glued together the two halves of an head-disk assembly, with this glue dissolving after the disks had been in the field for 18 months. Another example was that a new bateriacide used in an air filter interacted with the disk surface so that many failures occurred six months later. A common cause of the Pinto Effect is that a supplier will change some component as a cost cutting measure without notifying the disk manufacturer, and disastrous consequences occur due to unforeseen interactions. Although we desperately need real data on disk failures, we are performing studies of using models to estimate the impact of the Pinto Effect on RAID reliability. On Wed, Jul 3, 2019 at 2:02 PM John P. Linderman wrote: > The best I could find googling *fujitsu super eagle "glue"* was > > Introduction to redundant arrays of inexpensive disks ... - IEEE Xplore > https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/iel2/231/7454/00301912.pdf > > by DA Patterson - ‎1989 - ‎Cited by 324 > - > ‎Related articles > > computers, the Fujitsu M2361A "Super Eagle" disk for minicomputers, ..... > assembly, with this gluedissolving after the disks had been in the field > for 18 months. > > Tantalizing, but I couldn't dig further, perhaps because I'm not a member > of IEEE. > > On Tue, Jul 2, 2019 at 5:34 PM Rico Pajarola wrote: > >> if you still have that story, I'd love to hear it. A quick search didn't >> turn up anything except that Super Eagles is a Nigerian football team. >> >> >> On Tue, Jul 2, 2019 at 12:59 PM John P. Linderman >> wrote: >> >>> I don't have authoritative info on the cause, I'm just repeating what I >>> heard. A highly viscous substance like glue would explain why it took so >>> long to fail. In any event, it was nasty. Worked perfectly long enough to >>> build confidence, then failed spectacularly. It was widespread. I entered a >>> "Sysadmin Horror Story" contest at a USENIX (San Diego?), and won with a >>> "short story" entry: *Supereagles*. I still have the shark's tooth >>> trophy. >>> >>> On Tue, Jul 2, 2019 at 9:41 AM Tim Wilkinson wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Interesting that it was the platter bonding. The explanation SI gave us >>>> (They sold us the super Eagles along with their controller) was that it was >>>> a lubricant. So I had assumed a bearing seal fail. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Anyway after about 4 swap outs and a lot of lifting they lasted a >>>> further 15 years until we knocked down the office with the original 750 and >>>> its big brother an 8810 still in the computer room as all the resellers >>>> wanted certificates of continuing maintenance that would have cost more >>>> than they were willing to pay for those vaxs. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> *From:* John P. Linderman [mailto:jpl.jpl at gmail.com] >>>> *Sent:* 02 July 2019 12:47 >>>> *To:* Larry McVoy >>>> *Cc:* Clem Cole ; Patrick Finnegan < >>>> pat at computer-refuge.org>; COFF ; Tim Wilkinson < >>>> tjw at twsoft.co.uk> >>>> *Subject:* Re: [COFF] Disk Technology was [Simh] Which PDP-11 to choose >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> There were eagles, and then there were super-eagles. Our experience >>>> with eagles was great, and we were eager to try the (larger) super-eagles. >>>> We soaked them for a month or so, then put them into production use. >>>> Whereupon, they started dropping like flies. It turns out the glue they >>>> used to attach the platters to the spindle slowly crept out over time, >>>> eventually coming to grief with a read/write head. This experience was >>>> wide-spread, and seriously damaged Fujitsu's reputation. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Mon, Jul 1, 2019 at 10:11 AM Larry McVoy wrote: >>>> >>>> On Mon, Jul 01, 2019 at 09:49:42AM -0400, Clem Cole wrote: >>>> > An Eagle or Eagle-II was a whole lot lighter (and physically >>>> smaller) than >>>> > an RP06 or RP07 (or an RM series drive for that matter). It is >>>> interesting >>>> > to hear you had problems with the Eagles. They were generally >>>> considered >>>> > the best/most reliable of the day. The SI controller on the Vax was >>>> less >>>> > so, although many of us in the UNIX community used them. >>>> >>>> We ran Eagles on the Masscomps we had at Geophysics. Nothing but good >>>> things to say about those drives. >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> COFF mailing list >>>> COFF at minnie.tuhs.org >>>> https://minnie.tuhs.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/coff >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Virus-free. >>>> www.avast.com >>>> >>>> <#m_2142356106908993712_m_1751084755802734138_m_-5102461650516400670_m_-7814325232288781299_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> COFF mailing list >>> COFF at minnie.tuhs.org >>> https://minnie.tuhs.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/coff >>> >> _______________________________________________ > COFF mailing list > COFF at minnie.tuhs.org > https://minnie.tuhs.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/coff > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From clemc at ccc.com Thu Jul 4 04:42:46 2019 From: clemc at ccc.com (Clem Cole) Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2019 14:42:46 -0400 Subject: [COFF] Disk Technology was [Simh] Which PDP-11 to choose In-Reply-To: References: <6e8cdcbf-7183-1082-0437-403a6f3b2994@gmail.com> <25855953-9505-481C-A0E2-1AAD53B7BEC5@ccc.com> <28FA3347-B880-400A-B606-1240C83FA867@ccc.com> <005401d5300f$74588a60$5d099f20$@twsoft.co.uk> <20190701141124.GP1912@mcvoy.com> <00c901d530db$cf7b40f0$6e71c2d0$@twsoft.co.uk> Message-ID: BTW: for those not around in the 1970's Dave's reference to the 'Pinto' here it is: Ford Pinto issues THE *FORD PINTO* CASE: The cases involving the explosion of *Ford Pinto's* due to a defective fuel system design led to the debate of many *issues*, most centering around the use by *Ford* of a cost-benefit analysis and the ethics surrounding its decision not to upgrade the fuel system based on this analysis. THE FORD PINTO CASE: https://users.wfu.edu/palmitar/Law&Valuation/Papers/1999/Leggett-pinto.html [When I was in college, another student at CMU painted a large Bull's Eye on the back of him Pinto] On Wed, Jul 3, 2019 at 2:38 PM Clem Cole wrote: > John - not much there: > > Introduction to redundant arrays of inexpensive disks (RAID) > From Page 112, Bottom of 1st column continued to the top of second the > text is: > > While the magnetic disk industry has made little progress in improving > speed of disks, it has significantly reduced the size of disks. The > personal computer industry has created a market for 5.25 and 3.5 inch > drives, reducing the cost per disk system as well as the traditional > lowering of cost per megabyte. Table I below compares the top-of-the-line > IBM 3380 model AK4 mainframe disk, Fujitsu M2361A "Super Eagle" > minicomputer disk, Impress/CDC Wren-IV workstation disk, and the Conner Peripherals > CP 3100 personal computer disk. > > From Page 116, Second column the text is; > > One problem that several magnetic disk manufacturers have mentioned is > what we would call the "Pinto Effect;" a mistake is made in manufacturing > process that is so disastrous that the disk manufacturer will recall all > affected disks and replace them. The common theme is that the mistake is > uncovered after the disks have been in the field for several months and the > disks all fail within a short time of one another. One example was a > manufacturer who glued together the two halves of an head-disk assembly, > with this glue dissolving after the disks had been in the field for 18 > months. Another example was that a new bateriacide used in an air filter > interacted with the disk surface so that many failures occurred six months > later. A common cause of the Pinto Effect is that a supplier will change > some component as a cost cutting measure without notifying the disk > manufacturer, and disastrous consequences occur due to unforeseen > interactions. > > Although we desperately need real data on disk failures, we are performing > studies of using models to estimate the impact of the Pinto Effect on RAID > reliability. > > On Wed, Jul 3, 2019 at 2:02 PM John P. Linderman > wrote: > >> The best I could find googling *fujitsu super eagle "glue"* was >> >> Introduction to redundant arrays of inexpensive disks ... - IEEE Xplore >> https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/iel2/231/7454/00301912.pdf >> >> by DA Patterson - ‎1989 - ‎Cited by 324 >> - >> ‎Related articles >> >> computers, the Fujitsu M2361A "Super Eagle" disk for minicomputers, >> ..... assembly, with this gluedissolving after the disks had been in the >> field for 18 months. >> >> Tantalizing, but I couldn't dig further, perhaps because I'm not a member >> of IEEE. >> >> On Tue, Jul 2, 2019 at 5:34 PM Rico Pajarola wrote: >> >>> if you still have that story, I'd love to hear it. A quick search didn't >>> turn up anything except that Super Eagles is a Nigerian football team. >>> >>> >>> On Tue, Jul 2, 2019 at 12:59 PM John P. Linderman >>> wrote: >>> >>>> I don't have authoritative info on the cause, I'm just repeating what I >>>> heard. A highly viscous substance like glue would explain why it took so >>>> long to fail. In any event, it was nasty. Worked perfectly long enough to >>>> build confidence, then failed spectacularly. It was widespread. I entered a >>>> "Sysadmin Horror Story" contest at a USENIX (San Diego?), and won with a >>>> "short story" entry: *Supereagles*. I still have the shark's tooth >>>> trophy. >>>> >>>> On Tue, Jul 2, 2019 at 9:41 AM Tim Wilkinson wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Interesting that it was the platter bonding. The explanation SI gave >>>>> us (They sold us the super Eagles along with their controller) was that it >>>>> was a lubricant. So I had assumed a bearing seal fail. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Anyway after about 4 swap outs and a lot of lifting they lasted a >>>>> further 15 years until we knocked down the office with the original 750 and >>>>> its big brother an 8810 still in the computer room as all the resellers >>>>> wanted certificates of continuing maintenance that would have cost more >>>>> than they were willing to pay for those vaxs. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> *From:* John P. Linderman [mailto:jpl.jpl at gmail.com] >>>>> *Sent:* 02 July 2019 12:47 >>>>> *To:* Larry McVoy >>>>> *Cc:* Clem Cole ; Patrick Finnegan < >>>>> pat at computer-refuge.org>; COFF ; Tim Wilkinson < >>>>> tjw at twsoft.co.uk> >>>>> *Subject:* Re: [COFF] Disk Technology was [Simh] Which PDP-11 to >>>>> choose >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> There were eagles, and then there were super-eagles. Our experience >>>>> with eagles was great, and we were eager to try the (larger) super-eagles. >>>>> We soaked them for a month or so, then put them into production use. >>>>> Whereupon, they started dropping like flies. It turns out the glue they >>>>> used to attach the platters to the spindle slowly crept out over time, >>>>> eventually coming to grief with a read/write head. This experience was >>>>> wide-spread, and seriously damaged Fujitsu's reputation. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Jul 1, 2019 at 10:11 AM Larry McVoy wrote: >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Jul 01, 2019 at 09:49:42AM -0400, Clem Cole wrote: >>>>> > An Eagle or Eagle-II was a whole lot lighter (and physically >>>>> smaller) than >>>>> > an RP06 or RP07 (or an RM series drive for that matter). It is >>>>> interesting >>>>> > to hear you had problems with the Eagles. They were generally >>>>> considered >>>>> > the best/most reliable of the day. The SI controller on the Vax >>>>> was less >>>>> > so, although many of us in the UNIX community used them. >>>>> >>>>> We ran Eagles on the Masscomps we had at Geophysics. Nothing but good >>>>> things to say about those drives. >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> COFF mailing list >>>>> COFF at minnie.tuhs.org >>>>> https://minnie.tuhs.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/coff >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Virus-free. >>>>> www.avast.com >>>>> >>>>> <#m_-5891018402996361374_m_2142356106908993712_m_1751084755802734138_m_-5102461650516400670_m_-7814325232288781299_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> COFF mailing list >>>> COFF at minnie.tuhs.org >>>> https://minnie.tuhs.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/coff >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> COFF mailing list >> COFF at minnie.tuhs.org >> https://minnie.tuhs.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/coff >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From imp at bsdimp.com Thu Jul 4 05:02:57 2019 From: imp at bsdimp.com (Warner Losh) Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2019 13:02:57 -0600 Subject: [COFF] DEC PDP-x Disks pre 1970 Message-ID: Greetings, I'm looking for a list of all hard disk drives that DEC supported prior to ~1970 or so as part of some research I'm doing for my talk this fall in Lillehammer. so far, I've only found one listed in a pdp-9 brochure (the RB09 listed in the PDP-9 handbook). Are there others? I've seen a reference to an RA01, but have seen no details on it. It appears that Rx## is the pattern to look for in that era. Alternatively, if someone can articulate the XX## naming scheme of the time, that would be great. I've seen Dx## for different communications modules, for example, but don't know if I can generalize. Warner -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From clemc at ccc.com Thu Jul 4 05:58:38 2019 From: clemc at ccc.com (Clem Cole) Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2019 15:58:38 -0400 Subject: [COFF] DEC PDP-x Disks pre 1970 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I'd start by downloading simh and see what storage any of the early DEC system support in the simulations. That will not be 100%, as systems like the PDP-9 did not originally support a disk, so the one Ken Thompson used had been a PDP-7 disk spliced by DEC CSS on the 9. So the UNIX V0 work we had to move the code from one simulator to the other (which was easy in SW - for the work we are doing at LCM on real HW, we are just emulating with a modern disk). Also, FWIW: might try the Classic Computers, Rescue mailing lists and maybe the simh list too (although read the source first ;-). On Wed, Jul 3, 2019 at 3:03 PM Warner Losh wrote: > Greetings, > > I'm looking for a list of all hard disk drives that DEC supported prior to > ~1970 or so as part of some research I'm doing for my talk this fall in > Lillehammer. so far, I've only found one listed in a pdp-9 brochure (the > RB09 listed in the PDP-9 handbook). Are there others? I've seen a reference > to an RA01, but have seen no details on it. It appears that Rx## is the > pattern to look for in that era. > > Alternatively, if someone can articulate the XX## naming scheme of the > time, that would be great. I've seen Dx## for different communications > modules, for example, but don't know if I can generalize. > > Warner > > _______________________________________________ > COFF mailing list > COFF at minnie.tuhs.org > https://minnie.tuhs.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/coff > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dave at horsfall.org Tue Jul 9 11:20:41 2019 From: dave at horsfall.org (Dave Horsfall) Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2019 11:20:41 +1000 (EST) Subject: [COFF] Why I've been quiet for a while... Message-ID: A combination of both an extended back-hoe fade and me accidentally blocking Minnie :-( (This is also a test to see if I'm still on COFF, as it's a fairly quiet list.) -- Dave From gtaylor at tnetconsulting.net Tue Jul 9 11:58:13 2019 From: gtaylor at tnetconsulting.net (Grant Taylor) Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2019 19:58:13 -0600 Subject: [COFF] Why I've been quiet for a while... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9149512a-2ed9-26a4-9c06-9beef58d7a9f@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net> On 7/8/19 7:20 PM, Dave Horsfall wrote: > A combination of both an extended back-hoe fade and me accidentally > blocking Minnie :-( Oops! > (This is also a test to see if I'm still on COFF, as it's a fairly quiet > list.) Well, I see your message made it to and through the COFF mailing list on minnie. I don't know what your test criteria are to speculate at a pass / fail. I'll leave that for you to decide. -- Grant. . . . unix || die -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 4008 bytes Desc: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature URL: From dave at horsfall.org Sat Jul 13 11:12:21 2019 From: dave at horsfall.org (Dave Horsfall) Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2019 11:12:21 +1000 (EST) Subject: [COFF] In Memoriam: Robert Fano Message-ID: We lost him in 2016, and he used to work at MIT; unfortunately that's all the details that I have for him (apart from being born 11/11/17). -- Dave From stewart at serissa.com Sat Jul 13 13:40:32 2019 From: stewart at serissa.com (Lawrence Stewart) Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2019 23:40:32 -0400 Subject: [COFF] In Memoriam: Robert Fano In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0E231C47-C8AF-486D-AFCC-D1D8596ED431@serissa.com> Fano was an information theorist of some note. He’s known for his role in the Shannon-Fano algorithm for data compression (very similar to Huffman coding) and for the “Fano Algorithm” for decoding convolutional error correcting codes. In the old days of limited computation, the Fano algorithm was a reasonable choice, but in these modern days everyone uses the Viterbi Algorithm instead, which requires more computation and state, but is guaranteed to give the best answer. -Larry I think Fano falls into the “Research Laboratory of Electronics” group of MIT folks who do communications engineering, rather than the “CSAIL” group of computer scientists. Of course there is a fair amount of crossover, such as Dina Katabi. > On 2019, Jul 12, at 9:12 PM, Dave Horsfall wrote: > > We lost him in 2016, and he used to work at MIT; unfortunately that's all the details that I have for him (apart from being born 11/11/17). > > -- Dave > _______________________________________________ > COFF mailing list > COFF at minnie.tuhs.org > https://minnie.tuhs.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/coff From crossd at gmail.com Sat Jul 13 14:49:10 2019 From: crossd at gmail.com (Dan Cross) Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2019 00:49:10 -0400 Subject: [COFF] =?utf-8?q?RIP_Fernando_Corbat=C3=B3?= Message-ID: Tom Van Vleck just passed this on the Multics mailing list. Fernando Corbató has passed away at 93. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/12/science/fernando-corbato-dead.html Clem organized the wonderful Unix 50 event at the LCM two days ago, where we saw a working 6180 front panel on display (backed by a virtual DPS-8m running Multics!). This is our heritage and our history, let us not forget where we came from. - Dan C. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rudi.j.blom at gmail.com Sat Jul 13 18:58:34 2019 From: rudi.j.blom at gmail.com (Rudi Blom) Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2019 15:58:34 +0700 Subject: [COFF] In Memoriam: Robert Fano Message-ID: Roberto Mario "Robert" Fano (11 November 1917 – 13 July 2016) was an Italian-American computer scientist and professor of electrical engineering and computer science at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology.[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Fano Robert Fano, computing pioneer and founder of CSAIL, dies at 98 Professor emeritus helped launch field of information theory and developed early time-sharing computers. http://news.mit.edu/2016/robert-fano-obituary-0715 From jpl.jpl at gmail.com Sat Jul 13 22:09:10 2019 From: jpl.jpl at gmail.com (John P. Linderman) Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2019 08:09:10 -0400 Subject: [COFF] In Memoriam: Robert Fano In-Reply-To: <0E231C47-C8AF-486D-AFCC-D1D8596ED431@serissa.com> References: <0E231C47-C8AF-486D-AFCC-D1D8596ED431@serissa.com> Message-ID: I used to bump into Professor Fano in the halls. I recall he made an observation to the effect, "Americans are very generous unless they think they are being played for a sucker, in which case they become very mean spirited." I thought (and still think) that was very insightful. It explains a lot of politics. On Fri, Jul 12, 2019 at 11:46 PM Lawrence Stewart wrote: > Fano was an information theorist of some note. He’s known for his role in > the Shannon-Fano algorithm for data compression (very similar to Huffman > coding) and for the “Fano Algorithm” for decoding convolutional error > correcting codes. > > In the old days of limited computation, the Fano algorithm was a > reasonable choice, but in these modern days everyone uses the Viterbi > Algorithm instead, which requires more computation and state, but is > guaranteed to give the best answer. > > -Larry > > I think Fano falls into the “Research Laboratory of Electronics” group of > MIT folks who do communications engineering, rather than the “CSAIL” group > of computer scientists. Of course there is a fair amount of crossover, > such as Dina Katabi. > > > > On 2019, Jul 12, at 9:12 PM, Dave Horsfall wrote: > > > > We lost him in 2016, and he used to work at MIT; unfortunately that's > all the details that I have for him (apart from being born 11/11/17). > > > > -- Dave > > _______________________________________________ > > COFF mailing list > > COFF at minnie.tuhs.org > > https://minnie.tuhs.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/coff > > _______________________________________________ > COFF mailing list > COFF at minnie.tuhs.org > https://minnie.tuhs.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/coff > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dave at horsfall.org Sun Jul 14 15:55:21 2019 From: dave at horsfall.org (Dave Horsfall) Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2019 15:55:21 +1000 (EST) Subject: [COFF] Happy birthday, Jay W. Forrester and 386BSD! Message-ID: A computer pioneer, he is credited with the invention of core memory; fascinating stuff, when you realise that a "read" involves a couple of write cycles :-) Sense windings, etc... And 386BSD was released on this day in 1992, when William and Lynne Jolitz started the Open Source movement; well, that's what my notes say, and corrections are welcome (I know that Gilmore likes to take credit for just about everything). -- Dave From dave at horsfall.org Wed Jul 31 08:13:57 2019 From: dave at horsfall.org (Dave Horsfall) Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2019 08:13:57 +1000 (EST) Subject: [COFF] In memoriam: Per Brinch Hansen Message-ID: We lost him in 2007; he was known for working with monitors and concurrent programming etc, and authored "Operating System Principles" and "The Architecture of Concurrent Programs". -- Dave